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Great Adventure Stepping Up Security


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#31 WeeZeR8976

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 08:11 PM

I would like to see them improve on line cutters , cuz every ride i go on that has a long line you always encounter a perosn saying excuse me , comeing through , i mean it is against the rules to save spots in the line , if you get out of the line you can not get back in with your group. so every time i see some one coming through i ask them were are you going , and they usally say with my group , so i dont say anything cause i dont want to sound like a park cop or anything. :blink:
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#32 sfgadviper

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 08:51 PM

All I have to say is thank god they are doing something. Last season's FF was miserable with all of the poor crowd control. I had two guests with me that will never return to the park because of all the stupid stuff that could have been prevented occured. I am going only on Friday evenings this season so I can attempt to have a fun time.
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Posted 26 September 2005 - 11:07 PM

Well, I don't think these guys are here for line/smoking issues. That is the parks problem. They are going to be here for violence/unruly crowds.
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#34 Kingda Ka On Fire

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 04:04 PM

Personally, I think the security has done great all season, and it's good they're doing even more for FF. This year they added many more security booths, with a security guard always at hand, and usually ask you if you need anything. I have seen no rough housing, fights, graffiti, or vandalization yet this season in the park, a BIG improvement over last season, which was pretty bad. Good thing they are stepping up the already great security for FF, because it can get very bad in there. The only thing IMO the security has to be working on is the smoking issues. The only place I usually see people smoking is on-line or in the GK. :wacko: This was the case while I was at the park on Saturday. In the GK, it isn;t good because there are many kiddies in the area, and there are many plants. Also, smoking in lines is very bad. People are already close together, so you must inhale the smoke usually, which is very bad, and it is very disturbing. That is one area where more security could be added, but beside that, they're doing pretty good!

-KKR05

The entire golden kingdom is a no smoking area..however no one enforces it so people smoke anyway
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#35 sfgadviper

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 04:17 PM

While I am not dissing security at all I never ever saw any line enforcement this season on any of the rides. Ka's ticket system was the most pointless thing ever.
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#36 coastersrock

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 05:50 PM

im glad there steping up secirty id feel better about geting into something
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#37 JustMe

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 05:56 PM

Due to riots at the Texas Six Flags and the riot at SFGA on October 31st, they're not taking ANY chances this year. It's somewhat refreshing to see Premier taking steps to correct a problem rather than doing nothing. It's amazing how fast a company will react to a problem that affects their bottom line (although it's too late for Premier anyway - they're selling Six Flags via auction).

Hopefully these security guards are more well-trained. Quality is just as important as quantity when it comes to the security enforcement of large crowds.

Just wanted to make a few points that are important

1. There was *no* riot on Halloween in 2004, it never was a riot. It was 2 different small fights that drew a large amount of onlookers, due to the attendance (30,000 in the park all at once) the atmosphere was very charged and a police officer called in for "help"....lots of "help" came and helped clear the park but by the time they got there both fight situations were undercontrol and the areas were settled down. The parking lot was jammed but no riots there either.

2. IMO Premier is *not* correcting the problem. This is a bandaid on a very serious issue IMO. They need to treat their regular employees better throughout the year so that by FF they have some of them left. They need to pay the employees MORE, STOP making them work 6 days per week through August and literally 12-16 hour shifts. If they treated their personnel better they would not be in this position with the arrival of FF every single season. I had to leave due to these issues, I loved my job very much.....but they put me at risk and they werent paying me enough for that....it just went too damn far.

3. There is no way the additional security that has been hired will be better adapted or better trained than the park's actual security staff. It is impossible for anyone who has not worked in the park as a security officer to be able to adapt to the situation quickly enough to be able to deal with it in the best way. This isnt like police officers with their legally afforded power or like finding a fight situation on a city street. The balance that *has* to happen is respecting paying customers and at the same time trying to be fair with situations that are encountered. The ability to be more than one place at once and having the courage to face a large crowd of angry guests (sometimes in excess of 500 people) due to a line cut is not something people can be "trained" for...it comes with experience and no, not everyone has this ability. I have witnessed officers looked shell shocked after their first fright fest, I have seen grown men cry, quit and go home due to the stress of this coming month (which BTW is only like 12 days of operation but THE twelve days that is the proof and resolve of what they have learned over the entire season.) I totally agree that quality is so much more important that quantity and this dept has proved this over and over again in the last 5 years with very limited staffing levels and ZERO major incidents. The people that have been there for more than one season are experienced with what is coming, they know what is required and are prepared for it. It is the most stressful time of the season for the entire park and it is dreaded the entire season by many employees.

4. What I have witnessed in past seasons with additional private security personnel brought in was just disapointing and NOT helpful at all. Many of them were lazy, sloppy, rude and not trained at all. They would not follow instruction and habitually broke the rules (2 of them tried to ride rides in uniform while on duty, one kept asking females for their "digits" one officer telling a woman that had exited after closing, that needed to search for her children, that if she entered the turnstyle he would tackle her.....) Not all of them were like this of course, but what made the situation really foul was that security at GADV is *not* paid overtime wages for hours in excess of 40 per week. These supplemental employees do get OT pay because they are from a private contractor and it is in their contract.....therefore the park would pay a lazy, sloppy moron time and a half for standing (excuse me sitting, talking on his/her cell phone) at the main gate for 2 hours while the actual in house security was running around like headless chickens maintaining order being paid their straight time for the 50 or more hours they worked that week.

5. The reason that there have been NO MAJOR security incidents at this park for at least the last 5 yrs *was* due to the well trained, hardworking, dedicated in house security staff.....it is a thankless job guys...low wages, extreme hours, lost summers, abuse and huge amounts of stress....they come and do it anyway, they are dedicated. Dedication is the only thing keeping them there....please do not think some outside contract security business has more to offer the guests than this very dedicated, effective department......



do me a favor....everyone, this FF when you go, walk up to at least one officer or supervisor (white shirts) and simply say "thank you for your dedication"....you have no idea what this will mean to them.
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#38 Mr. Man

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 10:25 AM

1. There was *no* riot on Halloween in 2004, it never was a riot. It was 2 different small fights that drew a large amount of onlookers, due to the attendance (30,000 in the park all at once) the atmosphere was very charged and a police officer called in for "help"....lots of "help" came and helped clear the park but by the time they got there both fight situations were under control and the areas were settled down. The parking lot was jammed but no riots there either.


Well, I've had several debates about the incident on October 31st in Halloween. I guess this comes down to what you consider a riot. I certainly consider what I saw that evening a riot. Due to the ongoing brawls from the Batman ride and in the Nitro line (due to unchecked line cutting), some genius decided to shut down Nitro. So people who had been waiting for 4 hours broke the airgates and rioted. Stores were locking up for fear of being looted. Cops from 14 different municipalities showed up. There were two police helicopters, one over the parking lot, one in the park. Police in riot gear "helped" (PC term) the park do a "hard close" (PC term for LOCK DOWN) and forced people out of the park. And I beg your pardon, there WERE BRAWLS in the parking lot. Channel 10 news taped it from their news helicopter. The video was up on their website for MONTHS after the incident. There were various news report articles that confirmed how many different municipalities showed up at SFGA and eyewitness accounts of the riot and the police in riot gear. And no, I don't have the links anymore... it was nearly a year ago. Do a search yourself.

But I guess all those cops and police helicopters showed up just for the hell of it. You know... nothing better to do. SFGA must have been giving away free donuts. It takes a lot more than one cop calling for back up to authorize that large of a contingency of law enforcement.

2. IMO Premier is *not* correcting the problem. This is a bandaid on a very serious issue IMO. They need to treat their regular employees better throughout the year so that by FF they have some of them left. They need to pay the employees MORE, STOP making them work 6 days per week through August and literally 12-16 hour shifts. If they treated their personnel better they would not be in this position with the arrival of FF every single season. I had to leave due to these issues, I loved my job very much.....but they put me at risk and they werent paying me enough for that....it just went too damn far.


I agree, 100%. Premier has driven out many good, loyal, and creative people with their idiotic financial decisions. From the nearly-bankrupt-saddling acquisition spree in 1999, all the way to their poor decision to sell Six Flags via AUCTION, Premier has been just one big joke.

3. There is no way the additional security that has been hired will be better adapted or better trained than the park's actual security staff. It is impossible for anyone who has not worked in the park as a security officer to be able to adapt to the situation quickly enough to be able to deal with it in the best way. This isnt like police officers with their legally afforded power or like finding a fight situation on a city street. The balance that *has* to happen is respecting paying customers and at the same time trying to be fair with situations that are encountered. The ability to be more than one place at once and having the courage to face a large crowd of angry guests (sometimes in excess of 500 people) due to a line cut is not something people can be "trained" for...it comes with experience and no, not everyone has this ability. I have witnessed officers looked shell shocked after their first fright fest, I have seen grown men cry, quit and go home due to the stress of this coming month (which BTW is only like 12 days of operation but THE twelve days that is the proof and resolve of what they have learned over the entire season.) I totally agree that quality is so much more important that quantity and this dept has proved this over and over again in the last 5 years with very limited staffing levels and ZERO major incidents. The people that have been there for more than one season are experienced with what is coming, they know what is required and are prepared for it. It is the most stressful time of the season for the entire park and it is dreaded the entire season by many employees.

4. What I have witnessed in past seasons with additional private security personnel brought in was just disapointing and NOT helpful at all. Many of them were lazy, sloppy, rude and not trained at all. They would not follow instruction and habitually broke the rules (2 of them tried to ride rides in uniform while on duty, one kept asking females for their "digits" one officer telling a woman that had exited after closing, that needed to search for her children, that if she entered the turnstyle he would tackle her.....) Not all of them were like this of course, but what made the situation really foul was that security at GADV is *not* paid overtime wages for hours in excess of 40 per week. These supplemental employees do get OT pay because they are from a private contractor and it is in their contract.....therefore the park would pay a lazy, sloppy moron time and a half for standing (excuse me sitting, talking on his/her cell phone) at the main gate for 2 hours while the actual in house security was running around like headless chickens maintaining order being paid their straight time for the 50 or more hours they worked that week.

5. The reason that there have been NO MAJOR security incidents at this park for at least the last 5 yrs *was* due to the well trained, hardworking, dedicated in house security staff.....it is a thankless job guys...low wages, extreme hours, lost summers, abuse and huge amounts of stress....they come and do it anyway, they are dedicated. Dedication is the only thing keeping them there....please do not think some outside contract security business has more to offer the guests than this very dedicated, effective department......


You call it dedication, I call it blind loyalty.

I'm sorry, but when a company rips away your OT pay and pays you LESS that a gas station attendant is paid at Wawa for a job that puts you in harm's way every day, you might want to reconsider working at said place. As I said before, the park has lost a LOT of good, dedicated people. That's why you see so many people from other countries working in the park. American money to them (in any amount) will carry them far in their homeland. Of course, this translates to HORRID customer service because most of them have a tenuous grasp of the English language at best, are not versed in American culture, and are extremely inexperienced. Most cannot tell you where the bathroom is let alone enforce security protocols.

I say that any person who works more than 40 hours a week without overtime pay are either not the brightest of the bunch or they have this strange thought process that somehow they're going to be recognized for their sacrifices. In fact, I'll go further - they're enabling corporate greed. If you go to the Jersey shore, you'll see many popular boardwalks are EMULATING SFGA. They are outsourcing many of their employees from poor countries and not paying OT. They are placing them in their rides/games/food areas. They haven't placed them in their security departments, though. They learned from SFGA's mistakes (SEE ABOVE PARAGRAPHS, lol).

You see, TECHNICALLY, you don't have to pay a seasonal employee overtime. But, if you are not paid overtime, said employee does NOT have to work more than eight hours a day or more than 40 hours per week. If your employer wishes you to work more than 8 hours per day or 40 hours per week, and they are not willing to compensate with OT pay, they CANNOT FORCE YOU TO DO SO. That is the law in the state of NJ (and most other states). So why in God's name would you work more than 40 hours!? Why humiliate yourself like that?? For loyalty to a company that doesn't respect you enough to pay you OT!? Where is the dignity of these people!? Their self-respect??

So, all you'd need is for everyone to refuse to work more than their allotted 8 hours a day/40 hours a week schedule. From Security all the way to Grounds. What is SFGA going to do? Outsource ALL their employees form Russia and the Ukraine? Move SFGA to Mexico or Russia!? NO! Just imagine if everyone in the park refused to work one minute into overtime for a Fourth of July weekend or for Fright Fest work crew. They'd have NO CHOICE but to start paying OT again.

You blame the park, I blame the workers. They were the ones stupid enough to lay down to this travesty. They only stopped paying OT about 3 years ago. It wasn't like it was always this way. It was NEVER this way. Good workers used to be COMPENSATED properly. Good full timers used to be rewarded with bonuses and better budgets for their departments. Now the only bonuses that are meted out are to those at the top - the board of directors and the CEOs of Premier. SFGA has lost many great full timers (many, but some still remain) who made the park what it once was with Warner Bros. Most of these full timers have been either driven out, fired, or saw the writing on the wall and took their talents elsewhere (Cedar Fair, Disney, etc).

That being said, most of those who have decided to stay ARE very good at what they do. I suggest they find a place where they are properly compensated for their skill level.

Edited by Mr. Man, 30 September 2005 - 01:38 AM.

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#39 JustMe

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 02:18 PM

1. There was *no* riot on Halloween in 2004, it never was a riot. It was 2 different small fights that drew a large amount of onlookers, due to the attendance (30,000 in the park all at once) the atmosphere was very charged and a police officer called in for "help"....lots of "help" came and helped clear the park but by the time they got there both fight situations were under control and the areas were settled down. The parking lot was jammed but no riots there either.


Well, I've had several debates about the incident on October 31st in Halloween. I guess this comes down to what you consider a riot. I certainly consider what I saw that evening a riot. Due to the ongoing brawls from the Batman ride and in the Nitro line (due to unchecked line cutting), some genius decided to shut down Nitro. So people who had been waiting for 4 hours broke the airgates and rioted. Stores were locking up for fear of being looted. Cops from 14 different municipalities showed up. There were two police helicopters, one over the parking lot, one in the park. Police in riot gear "helped" (PC term) the park do a "hard close" (PC term for LOCK DOWN) and forced people out of the park. And I beg your pardon, there WERE BRAWLS in the parking lot. Channel 10 news taped it from their news helicopter. The video was up on their website for MONTHS after the incident. There were various news report articles that confirmed how many different municipalities showed up at SFGA and eyewitness accounts of the riot and the police in riot gear. And no, I don't have the links anymore... it was nearly a year ago. Do a search yourself.

But I guess all those cops and police helicopters showed up just for the hell of it. You know... nothing better to do. SFGA must have been giving away free donuts. It takes a lot more than one cop calling for back up to authorize that large of a contingency of law enforcement.

2. IMO Premier is *not* correcting the problem. This is a bandaid on a very serious issue IMO. They need to treat their regular employees better throughout the year so that by FF they have some of them left. They need to pay the employees MORE, STOP making them work 6 days per week through August and literally 12-16 hour shifts. If they treated their personnel better they would not be in this position with the arrival of FF every single season. I had to leave due to these issues, I loved my job very much.....but they put me at risk and they werent paying me enough for that....it just went too damn far.


I agree, 100%. Premier has driven out many good, loyal, and creative people with their idiotic financial decisions. From the nearly-bankrupt-saddling acquisition spree in 1999, all the way to their poor decision to sell Six Flags via AUCTION, Premier has been just one big joke.

3. There is no way the additional security that has been hired will be better adapted or better trained than the park's actual security staff. It is impossible for anyone who has not worked in the park as a security officer to be able to adapt to the situation quickly enough to be able to deal with it in the best way. This isnt like police officers with their legally afforded power or like finding a fight situation on a city street. The balance that *has* to happen is respecting paying customers and at the same time trying to be fair with situations that are encountered. The ability to be more than one place at once and having the courage to face a large crowd of angry guests (sometimes in excess of 500 people) due to a line cut is not something people can be "trained" for...it comes with experience and no, not everyone has this ability. I have witnessed officers looked shell shocked after their first fright fest, I have seen grown men cry, quit and go home due to the stress of this coming month (which BTW is only like 12 days of operation but THE twelve days that is the proof and resolve of what they have learned over the entire season.) I totally agree that quality is so much more important that quantity and this dept has proved this over and over again in the last 5 years with very limited staffing levels and ZERO major incidents. The people that have been there for more than one season are experienced with what is coming, they know what is required and are prepared for it. It is the most stressful time of the season for the entire park and it is dreaded the entire season by many employees.

4. What I have witnessed in past seasons with additional private security personnel brought in was just disapointing and NOT helpful at all. Many of them were lazy, sloppy, rude and not trained at all. They would not follow instruction and habitually broke the rules (2 of them tried to ride rides in uniform while on duty, one kept asking females for their "digits" one officer telling a woman that had exited after closing, that needed to search for her children, that if she entered the turnstyle he would tackle her.....) Not all of them were like this of course, but what made the situation really foul was that security at GADV is *not* paid overtime wages for hours in excess of 40 per week. These supplemental employees do get OT pay because they are from a private contractor and it is in their contract.....therefore the park would pay a lazy, sloppy moron time and a half for standing (excuse me sitting, talking on his/her cell phone) at the main gate for 2 hours while the actual in house security was running around like headless chickens maintaining order being paid their straight time for the 50 or more hours they worked that week.

5. The reason that there have been NO MAJOR security incidents at this park for at least the last 5 yrs *was* due to the well trained, hardworking, dedicated in house security staff.....it is a thankless job guys...low wages, extreme hours, lost summers, abuse and huge amounts of stress....they come and do it anyway, they are dedicated. Dedication is the only thing keeping them there....please do not think some outside contract security business has more to offer the guests than this very dedicated, effective department......


You call it dedication, I call it blind loyalty.

I'm sorry, but when a company rips away your OT pay and pays you LESS that a gas station attendant is paid at Wawa for a job that puts you in harm's way every day, you might want to reconsider working at said place. As I said before, the park has lost a LOT of good, dedicated people. That's why you see so many people from other countries working in the park. American money to them (in any amount) will carry them far in their homeland. Of course, this translates to HORRID customer service because most of them have a tenuous grasp of the English language at best, are not versed in American culture, and are extremely inexperienced. Most cannot tell you where the bathroom is let alone enforce security protocols.

I say that any person who works more than 40 hours a week without overtime pay are either not the brightest of the bunch or they have this strange thought process that somehow they're going to be recognized for their sacrifices. In fact, I'll go further - they're enabling corporate greed. If you go to the Jersey shore, you'll see many popular boardwalks are EMULATING SFGA. They are outsourcing many of their employees from poor countries and not paying OT. They are placing them in their rides/games/food areas. They haven't placed them in their security departments, though. They learned from SFGA's mistakes (SEE ABOVE PARAGRAPHS, lol).

You see, TECHNICALLY, you don't have to pay a seasonal employee overtime. But, if you are not paid overtime, said employee does NOT have to work more than eight hours a day or more than 40 hours per week. If your employer wishes you to work more than 8 hours per day or 40 hours per week, and they are not willing to compensate with OT pay, they CANNOT FORCE YOU TO DO SO. That is the law in the state of NJ (and most other states). So why in God's name would you work more than 40 hours!? Why humiliate yourself like that?? For loyalty to a company that doesn't respect you enough to pay you OT!? Where is the dignity of these people!? Their self-respect??

So, all you'd need is for everyone to refuse to work more than their allotted 8 hours a day/40 hours a week schedule. From Security all the way to Grounds. What is SFGA going to do? Outsource ALL their employees form Russia and the Ukraine? Move SFGA to Mexico or Russia!? NO! Just imagine if everyone in the park refused to work one minute into overtime for a Fourth of July weekend or for Fright Fest work crew. They'd have NO CHOICE but to start paying OT again.

You blame the park, I blame the workers. They were the ones stupid enough to lay down to this travesty. They only stopped paying OT about 3 years ago. It wasn't like it was always this way. It was NEVER this way. Good workers used to be COMPENSATED properly. Good full timers used to be rewarded with bonuses and better budgets for their departments. Now the only bonuses that are meted out are to those at the top - the board of directors and the CEOs of Premier. SFGA has lost many great full timers (many, but some still remain) who made the park what it once was with Warner Bros. Most of these full timers have been either driven out, fired, or saw the writing on the wall and took their talents elsewhere (Cedar Fair, Disney, etc).

That being said, most of those who have decided to stay ARE very good at what they do. I suggest they find a place where they are properly compensated for their skill level.

Look, a bunch of people running around does not make a "riot." There were two fights that happened at the same time, security and operations people responded, this caused more people to be running around the scene. One security supervisor was struck by a 13 year old girl which resulted in an "officer needs assistance" call. A Jackson police officer on scene called his departement asking for help...his department decided to treat it as they did and call in 14 different departments in riot gear. This was overkill, and by the time they got there there was *nothing* going on inside the park, it was already taken care of by Security and operations personnel. The cops decided to do a hard close and walked through and almost barren park to do it, the western section was just about empty and by the time the cops started at Medusa she had already sent out her last train for the season as normal, with no incident. Superman still had guests and was cleared by police, it was calm however. The hayride was cleared and this is where the bulk of the people were at the time, then GR and Lost and Found were cleared by police and they moved out into the parking lot. De to there being 30,000 people in the park at one time that basically all left at the same time the parking lot was locked up and jammed, Im sure there were some tempers flairing out there but no riots. One groups was even playing touch football as we got called out to that when someone thought it was a fight, these people were simply waiting for the lot to clear, which took a long time.


The stores closed up because it was *closing* time lol This all came to a head at between 8 and 9pm and was settled at closing time, the cops arrived at about 8:45 pm. There were two NEWS helicopters over the park because they like drama and they made sure they played that drama up on the nightly news usuing the best scenes they could and the best inflammatory language as well, just as they always do. After all this the Jackson cop said to me "Now I get to go write a report justifying ALL of this....." meaning he realized it was overkill. I dont see it has his fault, nor anyones "fault" it just happened the way it did. There was alot of people in the park, alot of confusion and this caused many people (like yourself obviously) to become anxietied over it, which is understandable. I will say this was NOT the worst Fright Fest, nor the busiest and I have seen it a hell of alot worse........but no matter how much people want to try and do what the media did, which is blow it out of proportion, the people that were there that know the ENTIRE night of eventsand were in the middle of it know there was NO riot and they know that Security and other Staff handled the situation and settled it which was something to be looked at with awe as it wasnt easy and took many people with the skills they needed as well as nerves of steel.


Blind loyalty? Ill agree with that. Its dedication to co workers and the job that keep people there, in leaving you feel guilty, like you are abandoning people. I did reconcider my employment there after that night and I got another job. Calling people "stupid" basically for working there is rude....if they werent there you couldnt visit the damn place. For many it is only a summer job that they happen to like and the money is incidental. For many it is a job after they have retired as a way to spend their time....these things do not make anyone dull or stupid. Many personnel in Security are there for the experience and go on to police departments, State Police, management in security and a host of other law enforcement jobs, the experience they gleen at the park is irreplaceable.

Sorry dude your just barking up the wrong tree. Security and many other departments do not have a union that can even bargain for them, they do not have the money to pay lawyers to figt for them either. As I explained above they DO care about their job, the guests and fellow employees which is why they work they way they do......they ignore the crap from corporate because of these reasons and feel an obligation. The type of people you refer to with not working OT or not giving a damn? I wouldnt want to work with....it is a hard job, and nope doesnt pay much but that doesnt mean people should look down on someone because of what they do and refer to them being stupid or something. Without those people your ignorant self couldnt visit the park....so why not use te influence only guests have and demand the park do something to change the situation? Boycott, or write letters, complain at GR....hit them where it hurts but dont think that security will not show up when those gates open, they will, they always will and you couldnt beat them away.......its not something I can even attempt to explain to you and Im very proud to have worked with the very dedicated individuals that I have had the pleasure of working along side. If it was just about people making the best buck they could the park would have no staff at all. Its the way the world works...low wage jobs. You dont like it, you want to change it than do something to change it.

Yeah complain you want employees paid more money and tell them you do NOT want El Toro.....
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#40 Mak

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 02:34 PM

If you guys want to continue your debate about what happened last year, take it to PMs, please. This very same conversation took place last November and it solved nothing.
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